Paweł Pawlak: Are you okay?
Paweł Pawlak: Oh, great!
Paweł Pawlak: Somehow my name
Paweł Pawlak: is extended with the company name. But company.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah. That's the.
Paweł Pawlak: Not valid anymore. So I need to.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): That's the what, the Tony complained. And maybe you can switch that. I don't know.
Paweł Pawlak: Yeah.
Paweł Pawlak: I can switch it. But I would like to
Paweł Pawlak: do it automatically. Okay.
Paweł Pawlak: maybe I need to do some modifications in my profile. That's it.
Paweł Pawlak: Kit.
Paweł Pawlak: Alright! Hmm.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Okay.
Paweł Pawlak: Maggie and Madas are here, so we are missing. Tony and
Paweł Pawlak: and Amy.
Paweł Pawlak: Okay, let me share.
Paweł Pawlak: Let me share the screen for today.
Paweł Pawlak: I hope, guys, you can see my screen.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yes, we can see.
Paweł Pawlak: Okay.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Tony's coming. Yeah, okay.
Paweł Pawlak: Alright. So, first of all, thank you for joining this this second meeting.
Paweł Pawlak: I hope you had a great
Paweł Pawlak: us long weekends.
Paweł Pawlak: which was not the case here here in Europe, but I was able to join the Ptl. Score, and I will give you some small update on
Paweł Pawlak: from the discussion we had yesterday.
Paweł Pawlak: So looking at the at the agenda for today, so considering the
Paweł Pawlak: packages, upgrades and failings Jenkins jobs. So we had discussion with Amy on this last Friday, and she opened a ticket.
Paweł Pawlak: Apparently not all of the drinking's jobs are failing now. Some of them are successful, but we are not yet there to have all all of the
Paweł Pawlak: drinking jobs for the next society to scans
Paweł Pawlak: with the positive results.
Paweł Pawlak: and.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): I'll I'll get my team to look at it today or tomorrow.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Attend book.
Paweł Pawlak: I agree.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Like us.
Paweł Pawlak: Reece.
Paweł Pawlak: Great. Thank you, Amy.
Paweł Pawlak: but at least we are. We are, you know.
Paweł Pawlak: We have a progress from last week, because last week all of the jobs were failing, and we got the message that this isn't due to instability of Microsoft.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Yeah. Well, also, if you saw that part of the other problem with it was they seem to be missing some. Let me find. Just give me a sec. Here it is.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): They.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): I sent Kevin a a message back.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): because his message said his when he was waiting for the tick. He, when he notified me on the ticket, it said,
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): the some of the tickets are. Some of the jobs are now successful, doing successful bills, but some are unstable.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): And he thinks that some of the jobs may be failing for unrelated issues like missing dependencies. So he gave the example from S.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Ccsd. K. Where
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): it looks like there's an old Maven dependency instead of the the newer one. It says
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): and it looks like in
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Ccsd. K.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): They are using the Maven dependency Plugin one dot 6, 2. But
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): it is. But Clm. Is expecting it to be 2 dot 10,
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): so I don't really know. So I'm not. So I sent him back a message asking, Is there something that the ptls need to do.
Paweł Pawlak: Yeah.
Paweł Pawlak: Because if so, they should be informed right?
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Exactly.
Paweł Pawlak: I don't recall any any message that was shared
Paweł Pawlak: recently, or even
Paweł Pawlak: some time ago, about some
Paweł Pawlak: needs to to update some.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Yeah, and that, and that, you know, going going from 1, 6, 2 to 2, 10 is pretty. Seems pretty significant to me, so
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): I don't know. I'll wait and see if I get anything back from Kevin.
Paweł Pawlak: Hmm, okay.
Paweł Pawlak: okay, thank you for
Paweł Pawlak: following it up. We need to
Paweł Pawlak: be sure that you know the own up community is aware of of the changes
Paweł Pawlak: if there were any changes. And if there are some
Paweł Pawlak: components or plugins whatever that needs to be upgraded right
Paweł Pawlak: to make things happening. And
Paweł Pawlak: okay.
Paweł Pawlak: do we have any comments on logging modifications? Proposal view? I think you
Paweł Pawlak: you added some points.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Same under, I think tomorrow Tata will join away meeting. So if any update I'll update next week.
Paweł Pawlak: Okay, okay. Sounds good. I have not yet, deleted the line about the only summit.
Paweł Pawlak: And because there were some
Paweł Pawlak: some nephew issues with pork or porch.
Paweł Pawlak: Yeah. I don't know if there is something that should be kept here
Paweł Pawlak: for any further update or updates, or I could
Paweł Pawlak: delete this this line for the next meeting.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): I think that for now we can. They're just recording, not we. We don't have to, because they are working on it. They're working on, but I don't think they have a clear solution. I think they struggling for in a different solution. But I think they try to
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): enhanced current approach
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): then they will see what they're gonna do, and next time, so I don't think
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): it's still still working on it. Eddison team is working on it. And Google,
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Tony. So.
Maggie Cogdell: Okay, so.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah, many.
Maggie Cogdell: It sounded like they were trying to simplify it.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah, they, they, Chris.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): several issues. And so they tried to, Tara suggested using the his simple one. But we're not sure. That's the.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): you know, so we'll see.
Paweł Pawlak: Okay for the Github actions. I keep it because it's sooner or later it's going to come.
Paweł Pawlak: Who knows when? Exactly in Q 3, maybe end, maybe beginning, maybe middle.
Paweł Pawlak: But we we'll see. You know, for Elefm Aiml case. Use cases just to keep you updated last Thursday at the Tsc
Paweł Pawlak: China telecom and China mobile colleagues made the presentations.
Paweł Pawlak: and they share their plans for the
Paweł Pawlak: artificial intelligence, use cases and turn up
Paweł Pawlak: viewing any comments from your side. I think this were interesting presentations
Paweł Pawlak: rent.
Paweł Pawlak: Can you hear me, guys?
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): I can hear you.
Paweł Pawlak: Okay, so beyond, we can.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): How will I? Yeah, how do I update it? Different? Section,
Paweł Pawlak: Different sections. Ok, so let's move.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Only only focus for future this section same same titles. But anyway, China, mobile China telecom.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): They presented their plan for also. If you scroll down to own it, focus for future. Maybe we can emulge later when you can. What is it
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): before? Ptm, me, yeah. Yeah. Here. Sorry. Yeah, yeah. Sorry you can move that thing to that section if you want to.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): So anyway, we.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): the China Mobile Channel Telecom, present their plan for also last at at their last Tsc, basically China mobile will continue to do intend driven orchestration autonomous
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and basically leveraging Jan AI
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and the nephew on it. And they are using lank chain. And currently, they are using channel mobile, specific model
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): juju, we can gtm, but using them chain they can plug into any other model. I think they are using
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): open air 2. But this particular owner project they're using
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): joint tian. Joint. Tian, yeah, yeah, something like that. Their own model.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): And China telecom. They are focused on the
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): 60 through onep.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): so they are explored exploring the orchestration leveraging. They already built lightweight on app. They chose a certain, you know, the owner component. They built it.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and according to Don one, they said once, it works well, then, they're going to contribute back to
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Oslo.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Because we're gonna outcome. And then, second to an on app Tsc, we're gonna discuss what component will be chosen for lightweight on it for demonstrating the AI ml, and also those telecom. They are selected some of their own app component for their own purpose. T and Ap.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Telecom network automation platform they have. So they chose some of the owner components. So that's what the doing. But anyway, China, mobile telecom. They share division what they gonna do. Still.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): we'd own it, but they want to connecting that to a nephew and other
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): like. So it says Orin, or Rand.
Paweł Pawlak: M-
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): So that's the input, though. I'm gonna ask them to share their presentation slide. And then once you then I'm gonna put the link here later on, but they haven't shared yet.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah, yeah.
Paweł Pawlak: But great.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): 'kay.
Paweł Pawlak: Thank you. Bill
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): The by, you.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): follow up on that that
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): the model that they're using to
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): plug into own app or nephew really goes back to the discussion we had
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): a couple of years ago, when, Dr. Eric Klein was doing his
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): AI machine learning work
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): under 5G super blueprint. And the question was.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): do you create a standalone
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): capability that has standard Api, so you can be more
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): universal, right.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): but.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Can use it. I think it's the same question. We've been talking in Aiml 2.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): It's easier if somebody does their own work in project.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): But there's always going to be this, the the model
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): the data processing
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): inputs and outputs.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): They don't exist on any project
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): as as of yet, right.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): it's still gonna be an isolated module, even if it's in within project. So we should be really thinking of, you know, how does that module talks to other components
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): and figure out a way forward where module can be
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): versatile for other use. Cases.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yes. Yes.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Good. Point.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): I think that this critical point
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and I had last
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): last year. Well, early this year I had a meeting with the Lindy keg one, and then Stonewall and Edison
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): team
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): about the standardization of the Api of the this and the model.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): I think that China mobile they are looking into, but not yet, you know. Make it concrete yet. But yeah, we'll yeah. They know that they know, though what's the concern what you just suggested. Yes, the Api model input output and then and stand alone. So for also a plan. When I review
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): their plan at the outcome. And I'm going to yeah, focus on that area. So there's another question is, so any currently the model is China mobile, specific. And also Channel telecom. They have their own way to handle. So we tried to standardize the model Api. So Yup Api, we already talked to our Channel Mobile, and they are interested, but we'll see, but is is coming. So I think the more to talk in the
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and Oslo, and also any security concern we have to inform to this that come to. So yeah, that's my plan, and we'll see how it goes.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Yeah, I think that the stuff that I've been reading up
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): last year. So
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): there are about 3 or 4 different container or or categories that needs to have some sort of
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): standardization for accelerated development in this area. The Api is one.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): but the models model training
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): changes need to be tracked right.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Data can come in. That may not be cleaned
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): later on. When you realize and you want to back out
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): very similar to the code.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): You wanna know where you made changes based on bad data and how you wanna pull that out.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): There are 3 4 different categories. If
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): you know folks who are developing. Now.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): you know, model model training and training changes or improvements.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): what they call learning.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): If they can just figure out what standard method they're gonna use for all 3, 4 of them. I think it will help other projects who are trying to get on board.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah, that's that'll be.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): So
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): yeah, definitely, I'm gonna pay attention that area when I
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): by myself, you know. But you're you're you're you're going to watch, too, but myself. When I do architecture
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): review, then I'm going to focus on that possibility, flexibility and standardization. Yeah, this one. So.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): And 1. One more item is, looks like both company. They are focused on not only the user input to
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): machine the parameter.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): not just doing that, but they are interested in the orchestration. So optimization and rerouting of the traffic so based on the aiml.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): So I I mentioned at the Tsc. Briefly the Pablo last time, because we have policy, but policy still are the
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): built by men which can be limited.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): because how many hours you can set right 1,000 is, that's we see a lot
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): but aiml by training, and also Gen. AI. They can generate the new policy. And I am calling policy. But AI, you know, intelligence.
Maggie Cogdell: Over.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Based on that. They can do better
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): the, you know analysis. And then also optimization, configuration and all the security check in.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): I think that's a good trend. I think that's why I said, this is very important.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): the development
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and on it. So that's why on, it is kind of a little, you know, shrunk significantly. But the China Mobile Channel Telecom and Deutsch Telecom. They're still pushing on it to have the advance, the feature, and so other to take it. So it's good.
Maggie Cogdell: With me.
Paweł Pawlak: Thank you. Thank you being for for this summary, and just let you know that the the last Tsc. On Thursday we were voting the Oslo initial scheduling, and thank you being for preparing it.
Paweł Pawlak: What else? So if you consider yesterday's meeting for the Pts call
Paweł Pawlak: so. Hmm.
Paweł Pawlak: We we are still
Paweł Pawlak: waiting for some update from from Dan.
Paweł Pawlak: and thank you for for for having some some chat with him. So.
Paweł Pawlak: Andreas, he disabled the Sdnc. Mr. Listener.
Paweł Pawlak: and it is deprecated in in New Delhi.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah. 1 one thing, Amy, the thanks, Tammy. So we have the 2 issues. But Amy, thanks to Emmy contact Dan. And we actually resolved the first one easy one.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Because of initially, we're contacting him for the map, Mr. Because dependency. But then, what is there?
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): He'll do a disable helm chat but andress, and last Olym Andrews that he he decide to disable
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Sdn. Cmr. Listener from the new Delhi. So that means the we can duplicate. That's that that the problem solved.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): But second problem is, I think, though, I mean, you try to
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): talk about that last time about the open daylight. You know some more complicated issue here, because.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): as Tnc. They have now updated last 2 releases
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and Sdnc new version without vehement Api, currently, they're using mixing Rfc and vehement.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): So if we don't have a beer man, Api, and so they are waiting for Dan's input kit. He said. He's ready to update Sso without using beer man. But Sdnc has to check in first and then get the new images. But that has not done. I think the
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): probably. Then
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): I'm not sure he can solve in this release, but we'll see. But I think the and.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): I don't know that. Yeah, I don't know that he can solve it in this release.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Yeah, thanks for thanks for clarifying that
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): He's
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): he's working on it.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): But he
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): anyway, he's shorts.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): I just
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): I think I don't think it'll happen in this release. I'd be surprised. I think it will be the next release. But
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): minimal. So the Beerman will still be there. The problem is, is just the
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): the Odl. Really, it's a lot of work for him to keep it up.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah, sure.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah, that's what the one down one to go. But second one is, it's gonna take a while.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Yeah. So I guess the question is, is there anything? Is there something that?
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): What is? What is the dependency on? SO, and is there something SO. Can do?
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): And so I think they are trying to do their own parts, so they don't want. I mean they are. I mean, they can be moved to the main from, you know, when they connecting to Sdnc
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and they can remove the beam. And Api they're using, but they are ready to check in, because today's call they change the code.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): But without Sdnc is gonna work or not, that's the question. Because, as the as so, they're not connecting to Network Directory, they connecting through the Sdnc.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): So if they, if they.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): if if Sdnc support the Rfc. And the
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): nicely
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and probably as so, okay, because they are talking to Sdnc, I'm gonna use a new Api Rfc, based, and not the vehement. That's fine. But coming back.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): you know, to S. So if they don't use beer, man. And but now, now, as so cannot handle be on an Api anymore, then we have some issues. So I mean, there's some dependencies here, so we'll see how how. Of course, as you said, I sense so Dan cannot reserve this in this new, really new new Delhi.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): I understand. But actually, the last 2 releases we'd keep talking about this. But actually, no solution. That's why on app just keep using the Bma Api because of that. So
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): also hope we have better news. But I'm not sure yet. Okay, so.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Right. So what is the Rfc. Standard Api that there that so wants to wants to? Transition to.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): 8. You have a number, right? So.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Yes.
Paweł Pawlak: Yeah, I think it's 80, 40 or something like this. It should be somewhere in the comments, yeah.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah, yeah.
Paweł Pawlak: Seconds there should be
Paweł Pawlak: somewhere in the Commons.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): And let me try to find.
Paweł Pawlak: If not, then on the Pts. Call.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Let me try to find.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah. We start using Rfc, not using the actual number. So
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): I find out and then put the link there.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Okay.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): I think the the probably already one. Once, you know, we just put that.
Paweł Pawlak: I think it was 80 40, but I'm sure it is on the ptls call minutes.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): That's my number. I need 40. Let me see. Hmm!
Paweł Pawlak: Booking
Paweł Pawlak: we can. We can check it
Paweł Pawlak: all right.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): So this is the rest. Okay, so this is the transition to rest. Comp.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): I think so.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Let me try to.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): And so today with.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah, yeah, yeah, 80. 80. 40, rest, current adapter.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Sure, so.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): 80, 80, 40. Yeah, you're right.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): It up.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): so with Beerman.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): that is a non-standard.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): that's a non. The the Beerman Api was non standard.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): To me. It's the audio you know the base, but it's deprecated. That's the issue.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): I think the Vm. And Api is deprecated from audio.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): So that's why they don't want to use this one any longer. According to the dance, somebody long time ago.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): So that's why they want to try to change to Rfc, so I think the B domain is.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): I don't think it's stand up, but maybe could be de facto before, but now is deprecated so.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and the 84 is not
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): backward, compatible, according to Dan, long time.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Okay? So Beerman is an application designed and implemented around the top of Odl to visualize beer network technologies. So it looks like
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): it's
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): was itf
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): hip.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): So it doesn't. I don't. This is an old reference that's not good.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Yeah.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): there's a couple of github for Yang.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Okay, so open daylight migrating Beerman Restconf to RC. 80 40. So the Beerman was rest. Comp.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): But it's
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): and then there's also Beerman.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): There was also a beerman net Comp. Which net Comp is, you know.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): See earlier, for it's it's it doesn't rely on rest.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Yep.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): So they're basically open. They like, sell deprecating support of vehement draft from is
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): sorrowful release and removing it from your
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): accordion.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): And then that's why that's 2 steps. So all audio doesn't support the Vm. But they deprecated. But we are using it still. So
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): I think that's the Dan is struggling. I guess. Audio update with the without your name. I know some. I don't know what's internal. But
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and he he's he got you said last time, he said. He's struggling with the audio.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Okay. So here's what the problem is is that the Rfc. 80, 40 is not backward compatible with Beerman. I found I found.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah, yeah, he's not married.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): This thing I found I found it on a presentation.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): as I'm trying to get myself up to speed on this
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): so he's got a couple of examples of where things
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): are different.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): So open daylight supported both versions of rest comp since the sodium release.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): But it's deprecating support for beer. Men in their sulfur release and moving and removing it in the, in the chlorine, release.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yes, that's correct.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): So
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): this means that all of onap needs this migration strategy. So I'm trying to figure out
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): where
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): alright so who? Which I guess that the the issues here are which
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): which of the applications are still using? Beerman.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): In, on.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Give me your could I have presentation rights?
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): You have a presentation right?
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Okay. So I have them already. Good, and go ahead.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): To.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Show you. Let me stop!
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): But need to.
Paweł Pawlak: Stop. Sharing. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Yeah, let me show you what
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): what this says. Let me actually find there it is.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): So this is an interesting, it's a it's a good presentation. So
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): let me just go back up to the top so that I'm not dropping out in the middle of it. So is this from
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): 2 years ago.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): and you know, talk about what rest Comp gives you.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): and the fact that it's not backward compatible with the Beerman draft.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): So if you want to go from Beerman to Rfc. 80, 40, you have to do work.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): And so
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): here's the and he gave the a good example of what the differences are. So get service data
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): shows you what Beerman looks like versus what the 80 40 you are. I would look like
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): You can see there are some changes, so
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): they look
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): primarily to be very tedious changes to be quite frank.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): So now
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): it says that open daylight supported both versions.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): and but it's deprecating support for Bierman in the sulphur release
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): and then fully removing it in chlorine
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): so
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): own app needed the the migration strategy.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): and we gave a good. We gave
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): whoops.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): So there's where where your own app releases. Come up. So here's was the problem. London
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): went either to Chlorine or Argon, and that's a place where the beerman is removed.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah. Supposed to. Not not have to.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Most do, but they may not have, because
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): it's because of the Beerman.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Here's the problem. So if chlorine doesn't support Bierman Draft Api.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): so it says, the recent own app use cases have been using the Rfc 80, 40. So those aren't the problem. But it's the older use cases
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): still use it. And so they wanted to wait, to update, to sulfur release in cone.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): So my question. And it's so that you can plan a migration from Beerman to Rfc. 80 40. So is this just really only in
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Ccsdk? Or is it in other? Or is it in other applicate and other
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): on app projects.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): To me. There's.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Using rest. Com. Sorry.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Yeah.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): To me. Just the Sdnc is, the one has to change. There's the main and update.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): And then anybody using Sdnc using the beer man. They have to drop the and then switch to Rfc, I think they're so they're using communicating with the the Sdnc they are using used to use a Vm. But they red drop beer man, and they move to Rfc. H. 0, 4 0.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): But the
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): that's to my understanding. So
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Sso is the main the, you know, according to Andress Nesso, is the main use use of the Stc. This interface
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): so once.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): that's why, Andrew, I think that I think we CC, you and Paabo, too.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): So once he make a decision as Tnc then.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and so team can
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): to react accordingly. So.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Alright. So what you're saying is that
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): all of the the the work of of disabling Beerman?
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Because that doesn't quite sync with what
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Dan had. So let me see what Dan said.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): I put a chat to what Andrew sent to Dan.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Okay, because what Dan had said to me last week or the week before, I guess.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): that the reason he hadn't done anything about the D map is because he'd been focusing on getting a working solution for the whole issue with a change in the rest. Api standard.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): okay. So it said, we've moved many projects off open daylight, as many projects off open daylight as we could, and the ones that are left are using an older version that still supports the version of the rest. Api we're using.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): and we're paying our support vendor to provide patches as needed.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): alright. So I'm not sure exactly what Dan is doing.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah, okay.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): I guess that for for internal he may need this, he may still need
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): the older version
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): I like, I said, I'm not 100%. Sure what Dan's doing. I I thought I had. I thought that I understood better.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): So.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): The Emmy. I I in chat I sent what the Andrew sent to them. That's what he like looking for.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): So.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): anyway. So yeah, Dan, I don't know what internally what Dan is doing. I don't know, either. It's not clear, because no communication comes in.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): So that's where Andrew sent him email several time about to understand the what's going on there. So
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): anyway, I put in the copy of the his email.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Okay.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): And get intent. So
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): thank you so much. Yeah, yeah.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yep.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Okay.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): We'll see, we see. But if you can, then can answer to Andress, it will be we can go further. Okay.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Yeah, alright. I'll I'll see if I I'll I'll see what.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Okay, what? Thank you.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Dan can do I'll try and.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): 1 one problem is down. So you know, I guess it's kind of a.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): The D map. Yeah. At least we got the D map settled.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was kind of confirmation. So then, and just and just didn't get the confirmation from Dan directly. But he said, okay
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): he disable. So it's not a big deal. So he disabled, yeah, okay.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): well, okay, yeah.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): For what it's worth, anyway.
Paweł Pawlak: Hungry.
Paweł Pawlak: So let's let's try to
Paweł Pawlak: have this
Paweł Pawlak: something like.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): So what needs to be captured in the user docs for these changes.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): User doc.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Yeah.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Point we need to mention about.
Paweł Pawlak: No, no! Yesterday we Thomas joined, and and we had discussion with and Andreas on this.
Paweł Pawlak: So on the one side, Andreas is, we'll be doing some. Some some
Paweł Pawlak: merge request right?
Paweł Pawlak: And Thomas will be updating documentation
Paweł Pawlak: about the deportation of the Dima Pamar.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Yeah, that's one element. I think for any of these changes
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): where
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): you know, an integration may be required on the user end when they're putting certain components in their network.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): And what is the ui like cli or static changes in files that need to be captured.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Madessa, I think, though, I mentioned at the Dtf. I don't think we can finish in the New daily.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): but the out of the lightweight. Own it. We
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): we we told that in Oslo we're gonna enhance a lot of documentation that you actually a suggestion from the Channel mobile Channel telecom. They need to have some integration user guide documentation. How to use this on it. This component was the Api. So those document will be in Oslo. That's that's my plan.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): As to for now to Thomas
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): focus under what you know, just to polish up to what we gonna do. But you know. So we have to
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): create another set of the documentation how to use
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): on each component when they aggregate the the component for a solution
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and Api model. And all the you know the things we have to creating new documentation. Yeah.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Yeah, I'm just kind of suggesting that now that
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): since the changes are being made.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): the certain type of information that the the
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Coder team should capture
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): and hand it over to
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Thomas and documentation team.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): They can, you know, when time is ready, they can actually use that. Otherwise we have to redo the same thing, going back to Ptls and Coder to figure out what that information is.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Great.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah. Okay.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Good point.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): There is a section in architecture review for ui cli changes configurability.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): I think whoever's making those changes
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): should kind of fill in those areas for architecture, review.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Hmm, yeah, yeah, we we put that, yeah.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Thanks.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): yep.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Okay.
Paweł Pawlak: Thank you for this comment. As I said.
Paweł Pawlak: alright! Any news from Nephi.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): I put the new section. The nephew or end workload identity proposal. Oh, no, no screw screw. Yeah. Stop there. Yeah. There. Yeah. So I put the new one.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): the neph nephew. 6 security. Tomorrow
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): they will present nephew Oran workload identity.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): And then that's the link the of the slide deck, the allow going to present it tomorrow at the
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Orin Working Group 2, which is Orin and tomorrow. Then basically how they link the nephew management cluster to
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): or in all cloud across the security. So they just trying to do that, our workload, working individually. So more detail will be available tomorrow.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): And then also last week, we team and nephew sick team security. We talk about, what are you gonna do with the nephew workload identity for nephew at least 3.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): So current approach is, start with the Poc, because security a little bit isolate from the nephew Co. They are busy for poach and others.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and this is separate the exercise and using Poc and demo, and then and then the presented to relevant groups. And then, as your suggestion requirement user story, we're gonna present to Sig one which is architecture
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and then detailed Demo run through to all sick automation, which is development team. So that's the current plan.
Paweł Pawlak: Okay. So thank you, Bean. So maybe next week there would be some some update after this.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): If you look at the this, the link, you can see the slide that the the you know very high level. And how? Yeah. Yeah. But there's another workload the design document. I share the previously. And they so some, yeah, you can go through. And this is what the
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): think, you know. So.
Paweł Pawlak: Okay. So yeah, I let everyone to to take a look. I I don't think we would have time today to go.
Maggie Cogdell: Yeah.
Paweł Pawlak: Full document.
Paweł Pawlak: Yeah, but thank you for sharing.
Maggie Cogdell: Damn good.
Paweł Pawlak: Very valuable, valuable.
Paweł Pawlak: And the comments, guys, yeah.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): I've been also looking at the workload identity
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): and establishing identity is one thing right?
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): And how do you use that identity in
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): the system management.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): I don't think that has been fully clarified in any of this presentation.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): which means that if you let's say
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): you know, you're deploying a workload, and that stuff happens really at the
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): OS level or Cubanity level, right? And you establish identity.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): There.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Few use cases that come to mind right away in our environment like nephew or own app.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): which is
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): okay. You can use this for x 509 certificates on your mtls.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): That's one use case, right. Another use case is that identity may be included
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): either by app
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): through service mesh as part of the logging entity.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Right, said.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yep.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): That's 2 use cases.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): The third is, how do you report the identity back to your
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Iam or Icam, where it may be part of building a policy.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): and the last one is.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): how do you take it back to
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): application level? Because the the small application and some other applications
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): may make use of it as like you know, being part of the slice, you know, subsystem.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): So those details haven't been talked about a lot. Right? So lot of people directly think, okay, well, we can have a Api security out of it.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): That's just one element. I think the people who are thinking of workload identity should also start thinking about
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): what is the you know, top 2 or 3 best use cases.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): For identity use.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah, true. So I think we just so you know that. So I think I once share the slide deck with this team and
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): the workload identity we just secret and also working with the service mesh, because the workload identity they just attach the identity and across the cluster. But it's not the different from just service, mesh service, mesh. There's a way to use this spi id
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): for their service. That's the east deal. So that's the kind of a plan. So currently
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): the shift team, the nephew. Sick security is there.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): they already are talking about service mesh, but they are in adding the workload identity.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Once it's done, they're gonna in R 3, are they? Gonna handle both identity and service. Mesh, yeah, understand? That's fully because work walk the spiff and then a service mesh. They under different areas. So they should work together. And you still already combine the 2 thing together. So we, we have to work on that. And so that's the part of the person, their reason, and also
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): and the next next iteration they think of how to connecting that to Yidc.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): so adding soon propose a user identity using. Yc, that's the typical authentication authorization. And how to link that between the this or idc a protocol with the service. Mesh, slash the workload identity. That's so. Next level discussion. So it's it's coming. Yes, I understand your point. So
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): for now our 3 day, I think that minimum 8 just handling work, quality and service mesh, was. That's that's what they are talking about. And after that we're gonna talk other area.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Okay. Sounds good. Thank you.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Kit.
Paweł Pawlak: Thank you for this Clarification Bill.
Paweł Pawlak: Okay, looking at the remaining topics.
Paweł Pawlak: okay, we wait for them with mesh. And
Paweł Pawlak: in the context of context of minister.
Paweł Pawlak: this is already discussed.
Paweł Pawlak: Well, any update from the elephant pack.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): There were discussion. I think that coming
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): meeting will have bit more. So there is this
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): CNTI.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Initiative going on.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): and what I heard was
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): to Linux Foundation
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): had given up
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): a contract to woke security to do a lot of work
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): that
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): money is dried up.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): So maybe in a month or so timeframe.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): that contract will be up.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): So now it depends on the the community support
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): to.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): you know, kind of push that initiative forward.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): They have not
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): put the documentation together yet.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): so in next week or 2 there will be
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): and attempt
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): to formally introduce Cnti as a project candidate to
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): tack
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): and ask for approval
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): and current consensus is that
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): regardless of
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): works.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): financial arrangement, their support or lack of support.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Most project in Lf.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): They used to be community supported, not financial, driven
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): so.
Paweł Pawlak: Yeah, sure.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): The consensus in the tech was
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): you know, if there's not enough community support, then maybe it shouldn't be a project.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): and if there is one
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): enough community support. Then. It doesn't matter whether or not work is gonna remain or pull out.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): So we don't have a decision yet, and we believe
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): that without walk it should still go on even with you know fewer companies or fewer participant supporting it.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): and let it. See how this this goes into progress? It might affect
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): migration aspects like, you know, and get the short and couple of other
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): initiatives that elephant had in the past.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): How soon can that be migrated if there's not enough support? But if there is enough support for Cnti.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): then, you know, work issues. Non discussion. Item.
Paweł Pawlak: Okay.
Paweł Pawlak: thank you for this. Update myself.
Maggie Cogdell: How do you spell that Madasser?
Maggie Cogdell: Poop?
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): V. As in Victor U umbrella. L. Larry, hey, kai.
Maggie Cogdell: Okay.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): But it seems like the the team who was doing a lot of the leg work
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): is on the same page, right? They wanna move it forward. They think they have enough support.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): But usually
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): my experience has been, there's usually enough support to be part of the discussion, but not put the boots on the ground.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): That's been the case with Aiml and some other initiative where you know only few like. Out of, you know, 15 participant.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): only China mobile and China telecom is actually doing some work.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Other big wigs like Cisco or Google. And
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): you name it.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): These guys haven't shown
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): what they're gonna bring to the table.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): And it's
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): that that part is kind of what I call
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): initially farming cages, where people are sitting on the side. They don't wanna.
Maggie Cogdell: Left.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Out. So they wanna be in the note.
Maggie Cogdell: With.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Their company. Strategy has been committed to supporting an open source initiative.
Paweł Pawlak: Hmm.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): So I see same happening with Cnti where we were hoping.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): You know, the way momentum is is, gonna be a very quick progress on this issue. But it's right now. It looks like
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): same scenario. A lot of people are interested, especially the Telco folks. But you don't see lot of resources from Telco Source actually making it happen
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): would would have thought that, you know, it really helps
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): to to
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): telecom or service provider community
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): for cloud native certification, because that's where either commercial cloud providers
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): for a large telco is, gonna be the main beneficiaries
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): of this initiative.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): But their their their participation is really muted.
Maggie Cogdell: Hoof.
Paweł Pawlak: Let's see how it's going to evolve.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): So another thing that we talked about, I think if I mentioned it here, too, I think that the quality goal is
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): kind of again slipped off the agenda.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): right now they're looking at some, you know, Cnti and couple of other process issues intact.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): I suggested that
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): maybe it should be tied into.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): What Tony has proposed, how to
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): measure the maturity.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): So I wonder, Tony, if you have any thoughts on
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): how can
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): and the quality goal be measured for
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): maturity level of a project between
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): sandbox and graduated.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): and make, you know, some sort of
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): requirement for a project to move from one stage to another
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): where they meet certain quality goals for graduated. I think
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): we need to
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): at least present that it's usable is no longer engineering concept.
Paweł Pawlak: Don't need any comments.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): But if not yet, I think we have time to
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): digest that to figure out.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): How can we?
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Because the main thing has been this, push back right? The ptls or the projects
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): may
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): may not take it
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): as easy. If it comes top down, so we can brew it up, bottom up.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): back into the process.
Tony Hansen (AT&T Services, Inc.): I'm not sure I have a comment right now.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Yeah, just think about it. Because I I think you got all the things that are needed
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): in your effort to.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): Maybe few things need to be polished up.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): but that could be one way to not only present, but also report.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): and if those kind of capabilities exist in assessment.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): then they can be tied into
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): the life cycle process that tack put together for project designation. I think it would be easier to take the quality and security goals and put it into those 4 or 5 stages of different life cycle projects.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): If we have ways to
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): assess the Kpis.
Paweł Pawlak: Okay, so don't, maybe.
Paweł Pawlak: Some thoughts.
Paweł Pawlak: Yeah.
Paweł Pawlak: we can. We can.
Paweł Pawlak: We can.
Tony Hansen (AT&T Services, Inc.): But if.
Paweł Pawlak: Tom.
Paweł Pawlak: not for now. But who knows? Maybe next week or or
Paweł Pawlak: between the meetings as well. Right?
Paweł Pawlak: Okay. So looking at the remaining items. Okay, so
Paweł Pawlak: hmm for the Clm. Scans for Mg. Portal Fifa was present yesterday.
Paweł Pawlak: so he explained that he might still need some help from jazz, but she was unavailable recently. So I hope
Paweł Pawlak: this is something that could still move forward.
Paweł Pawlak: And
Paweł Pawlak: do you have guys any proposals for the topics for the next week agenda. I know there would be some update from from the side and view, but maybe some other topics, and that we have not covered annual.
Paweł Pawlak: or a seeded would be.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): No one thing, though, I just question to any about the requirement. 1585, which is Java update 17. It was the
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): was there a while ago, and we created this the requirement. But I'm not sure
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): it's completely executed by Pto. So as soon.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): It's not completely executed. It's one of those things again that yes, we would like this done.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): But
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): reality is.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Support the the on app support is
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): becoming more limited. So it's it's unclear that how much this can be done.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): But we don't want it to get lost. That
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): yeah.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): we don't want that. We don't want that to get lost.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Okay, yep.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Reason I said it was yeah, cause the session says, you control info me they are going to update to Java setup.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): And team.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): For New Delhi.
Paweł Pawlak: Good. Good. Yeah. Click.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): That's the only one, but not Sdc, even we don't care, because to deprecated. But Dca, you know, as you said, many other Ccsdk, yeah.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): But I think that this is where you get to the point where
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): this is the. This is the collection of evidence as to whether this remains a healthy, whether on app remains a healthy platform or not.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): It's, you know, the the if you.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): if you don't have requirements to stay current
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): on technologies then, and you have evidence that they're not. Then then it's then
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): the Tsc can make a very different decision than if you're just saying, well, you know.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): taking your head in the sand that everything's okay, even though you're using old versions of things, you're you're not staying current
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): and and ultimately that
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): you know the lack of currency will affect
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): will affect adoption of the of
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): of the the project in general.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Yeah. And just as to know on our session.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Yeah, no, I it's perfectly it.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): I'm not gonna have a fit about it. Or you know, it's but it's just it's reality that we do need to
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): to keep. In my opinion, we need to keep the requirements to stay current.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): And and this helps us identify the projects who just simply don't have the the
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): resources to do that.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Okay, understand? You.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Okay.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Thank you.
Amy Zwarico (AT&T Services, Inc.): Problem, yeah.
Paweł Pawlak: Okay. So, guys, we reached the top of the hour. So thank you very much for today. Remember, next week we use the new links
Paweł Pawlak: at the very beginning of the meeting. Right?
Paweł Pawlak: So, yeah, thank you for today. And yeah, talk to you next week.
Paweł Pawlak: Bye. Thank you. Very.
Byung-Woo Jun (Ericsson Software Technology): Much. Bye. Thank you.
Paweł Pawlak: Thank you. Bye, bye.
Muddasar Ahmed (MITRE): By now.